How should Lemmy & Piefed handle voting activity from banned/deleted accounts?
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But your (one of) solution is to kill half of the voting system to solve half of the vote manipulation. It’s like solving spam by turning off comments. I don’t think that is going to be a popular opinion
That’s not killing half the voting system to solve half of the vote manipulation. Downvotes do not even get used at the same ratio as upvotes. I’m sure someone can pull numbers, but I’d roughly estimate that in most communities no more than 10% of votes are downvotes. And even if they were, I’m not sure you quite parsed my full comment.
- I stated very early that I don’t specifically like disabling downvotes.
- I stated why I think that post-hoc remediations will not work.
- I proposed a potential compromise which can be used to mitigate abuse without a blanket downvote ban.
Blocking voting on fresh accounts is not a novel idea. As another commenter said, it’s the system used on Stack Overflow. Blocking all downvotes is not even the goal. The goal is to make brigading not worth the effort. The worst case scenario is that all downvotes get disabled (which still works, despite its unpopularity - it’s been implemented by instances like beehaw). But in the end, that’s just a baseline. It can be improved, and I like to believe that I was quite clear on that in my first comment.
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Uh, votes don’t matter here. That’s one of the improvements over Reddit.
But sadly do on piefed
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Do away with voting altogether and force people to think for themselves instead of just following the easily manipulated herd. Always sort by New Comments with no other options so the only things at the top are active discussions.
This also would make it so lurkers can’t influence the conversations they don’t actively participate in.
What’s the virtue of everyone taking part in a conversation even when they have nothing substantive to add?
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What’s the virtue of everyone taking part in a conversation even when they have nothing substantive to add?
Who said you have to participate? Not interested? Move on.
What is the virtue in liking or disliking a thing you’re not going to otherwise engage with? Why should others dictate what you are more likely to actually see?
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It’s a shame honestly, I feel like Piefed without up/downvotes at all would work better. No algorithm, thanks.
Piefed doesn’t incorporate any of this into an algorithm.
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But sadly do on piefed
Please elaborate.
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Please elaborate.
Piefed ties your voting habits and how often downvoted so it can flag you if either downvoted too much or down vote up and down sort of equally.
Basically if someone goes against hive mind once or twice can cause getting removed or limited on their instance.
https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/
Find people who have low karma
When someone is consistently getting downvoted it’s likely they are a problem. PieFed provides a list of accounts with low karma, sorted by lowest first. Clicking on their user name takes you to their profile which shows all their posts and comments in one place. Every profile has “Ban” and “Ban + Purge” buttons that have instance-wide effects and are only visible to admins.
The ‘Rep’ column is their reputation. As you can see, some people have been downvoted thousands of times. They’re not going to change their ways, are they?
The ‘Reports’ column is how often they’ve been reported, IP shows their IP address and ‘Source’ shows which website linked to PieFed when they initially registered. If an unfriendly forum starts sending floods of toxic people to your instance, spotting them is easy. (In the image above all the accounts are from other instances so we don’t know their IP address or Source).
Find people who downvote too muchOnce an account has made a few votes, an “attitude” is calculated each time they vote which is the percentage of up votes vs. down votes.
People who downvote more than upvote tend to be the ones who get in fights a lot and say snarky, inflammatory and negative things. If you were at a dinner party, would you want them around? By reviewing the list of people with bad attitudes you can make decisions about who you want to be involved in our communities.
All these accounts have been downvoting a lot (Attitude column) and receiving some downvotes (Rep column). Their profiles are worth a look and then making a decision about whether they’re bringing down the vibe or not.
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But sadly do on piefed
How does piefed treat them differently?
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How does piefed treat them differently?
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Piefed ties your voting habits and how often downvoted so it can flag you if either downvoted too much or down vote up and down sort of equally.
Basically if someone goes against hive mind once or twice can cause getting removed or limited on their instance.
https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/
Find people who have low karma
When someone is consistently getting downvoted it’s likely they are a problem. PieFed provides a list of accounts with low karma, sorted by lowest first. Clicking on their user name takes you to their profile which shows all their posts and comments in one place. Every profile has “Ban” and “Ban + Purge” buttons that have instance-wide effects and are only visible to admins.
The ‘Rep’ column is their reputation. As you can see, some people have been downvoted thousands of times. They’re not going to change their ways, are they?
The ‘Reports’ column is how often they’ve been reported, IP shows their IP address and ‘Source’ shows which website linked to PieFed when they initially registered. If an unfriendly forum starts sending floods of toxic people to your instance, spotting them is easy. (In the image above all the accounts are from other instances so we don’t know their IP address or Source).
Find people who downvote too muchOnce an account has made a few votes, an “attitude” is calculated each time they vote which is the percentage of up votes vs. down votes.
People who downvote more than upvote tend to be the ones who get in fights a lot and say snarky, inflammatory and negative things. If you were at a dinner party, would you want them around? By reviewing the list of people with bad attitudes you can make decisions about who you want to be involved in our communities.
All these accounts have been downvoting a lot (Attitude column) and receiving some downvotes (Rep column). Their profiles are worth a look and then making a decision about whether they’re bringing down the vibe or not.
Jesus Christ I hate that the internet is turning this space into your shitty fucking idea of a dinner party
It’s negative! Oh no better hide that, because some jerks decided being polite is the ultimate Maxim of human expression
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Who said you have to participate? Not interested? Move on.
What is the virtue in liking or disliking a thing you’re not going to otherwise engage with? Why should others dictate what you are more likely to actually see?
Who said they weren’t interested? Your entire premise is based on them being interested.
So again, what’s the virtue in everybody having to comment even if they don’t have some substantive to say?
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Who said they weren’t interested? Your entire premise is based on them being interested.
So again, what’s the virtue in everybody having to comment even if they don’t have some substantive to say?
Who said they weren’t interested? Your entire premise is based on them being interested.
I don’t even know how you came to this conclusion. If you’re not interested in the discussion, and you’re not going to participate in it, why should you get to influence how others may see the content by voting on it and affecting its visibility? That’s the premise.
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Who said they weren’t interested? Your entire premise is based on them being interested.
I don’t even know how you came to this conclusion. If you’re not interested in the discussion, and you’re not going to participate in it, why should you get to influence how others may see the content by voting on it and affecting its visibility? That’s the premise.
Buddy I don’t care how hard you’re trying I’m not going to let you move the goal posts. Answer the original question.
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Vote manipulation is getting more common. Some recent examples:
While the accounts were banned, the malicious voting activity stuck around.
Should admins have the ability to discard votes, and if so, which admins? Should community mods have that ability? Can you think of any ways that tools like this could be abused?
when did this change? I can’t vote if I’m even tempbanned let alone full banned.
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Piefed ties your voting habits and how often downvoted so it can flag you if either downvoted too much or down vote up and down sort of equally.
Basically if someone goes against hive mind once or twice can cause getting removed or limited on their instance.
https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/
Find people who have low karma
When someone is consistently getting downvoted it’s likely they are a problem. PieFed provides a list of accounts with low karma, sorted by lowest first. Clicking on their user name takes you to their profile which shows all their posts and comments in one place. Every profile has “Ban” and “Ban + Purge” buttons that have instance-wide effects and are only visible to admins.
The ‘Rep’ column is their reputation. As you can see, some people have been downvoted thousands of times. They’re not going to change their ways, are they?
The ‘Reports’ column is how often they’ve been reported, IP shows their IP address and ‘Source’ shows which website linked to PieFed when they initially registered. If an unfriendly forum starts sending floods of toxic people to your instance, spotting them is easy. (In the image above all the accounts are from other instances so we don’t know their IP address or Source).
Find people who downvote too muchOnce an account has made a few votes, an “attitude” is calculated each time they vote which is the percentage of up votes vs. down votes.
People who downvote more than upvote tend to be the ones who get in fights a lot and say snarky, inflammatory and negative things. If you were at a dinner party, would you want them around? By reviewing the list of people with bad attitudes you can make decisions about who you want to be involved in our communities.
All these accounts have been downvoting a lot (Attitude column) and receiving some downvotes (Rep column). Their profiles are worth a look and then making a decision about whether they’re bringing down the vibe or not.
Every single time I see someone with a low reputation warning, they are toxic users.
It’s an imperfect tool, but it helps identify trolls and sea lions.
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It’s a shame honestly, I feel like Piefed without up/downvotes at all would work better. No algorithm, thanks.
https://piefed.blahaj.zone already has downvotes disabled, disabling the reputation warning features as well (you can’t get bad attitude if you can’t give downvotes)
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when did this change? I can’t vote if I’m even tempbanned let alone full banned.
This was about old votes from before the user was banned, specifically for vote manipulation bots
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This was about old votes from before the user was banned, specifically for vote manipulation bots
ahhhh, that makes sense.
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Uh, votes don’t matter here. That’s one of the improvements over Reddit.
they are visible, they do matter, just not that much as on reddit
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Jesus Christ I hate that the internet is turning this space into your shitty fucking idea of a dinner party
It’s negative! Oh no better hide that, because some jerks decided being polite is the ultimate Maxim of human expression
as I understand it does not hide negatively voted comments. these are stats, for to moderators, for helping moderation decisions. It’s not automatic.
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