How should Lemmy & Piefed handle voting activity from banned/deleted accounts?
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I guess I approach it inversely. I encounter what looks like a troll post and I’ll only check profiles when either I am interacting with them, or there’s such deep downvoting already I’m just doing a morbid dive into someone’s history.
Most of the time though the user just has a deeply downvoted argument but otherwise normal and/or low engagement posts, so they wouldn’t be flagged by this.
So I understand that it can save some time with some niche cases.
But I can’t help but note that the system seems intentionally blind to targeted harassment, which can be a source, if not cause, of bad faith accounts. (And likely those need different approaches since those are also niche cases themselves.)
And maybe it’s all just because of my instance’s Local feed, so that’s what I see as a prominent problem on Lemmy.
But I can’t help but note that the system seems intentionally blind to targeted harassment, which can be a source, if not cause, of bad faith accounts. (And likely those need different approaches since those are also niche cases themselves.)
If you mean using puppet accounts to massively downvote someone, that’s also tracked, but with another tool
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But I can’t help but note that the system seems intentionally blind to targeted harassment, which can be a source, if not cause, of bad faith accounts. (And likely those need different approaches since those are also niche cases themselves.)
If you mean using puppet accounts to massively downvote someone, that’s also tracked, but with another tool
Not necessarily puppet accounts, just brigading in general.
It’s the rationale many instances used to defederate hexbear. (Even though iirc hexbear disables downvotes, so they’re defederated for users mass posting, usually that hogshit image, instead of mass voting.) It wasn’t puppets or bot accounts at any rate.
But then there’s repost communities where users share comments (especially in places they or their audience is banned from) or DMs for a group response.
Not to mention the whole ‘block and downvote all .ml on sight’ mentality. But hopefully that might be something this tool could catch.
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Would discard a tool that identifies 90% of trolls just because it doesn’t reach 100% accuracy?
Again it’s designed to empower downvoting to silence those against the hivemind
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Piefed system doesn’t punish those who do not act “the way the creator wants”.
Downvotes given are only actions from the user, no interaction from the Piefed dev.
Downvotes received is feedback from other users, no interaction from the Piefed dev either.
allowing them to do the worst parts of reddit in the fediverse.
Trolls are already around, as you pointed out in another comment. I would rather have a tool that works 80% of the time to detect trolls than no tools at all.
When you ignore all the downsides and concerns everything looks amazing.
I wish I had your confidence in it being positive
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as I understand it does not hide negatively voted comments. these are stats, for to moderators, for helping moderation decisions. It’s not automatic.
It’s the concept that it is good to moderate these spaces like that that bothers. As a human I need to be challenged and that includes dealing with perceptibly negative commentary from people. Not just some whitewashed version of some propagandized online personas masquerading as the the “best” of human beings.
Like IRL, any truly gratifying social function includes the possibility of heated debate and some real feelings exchanged, real things happening outside your comfort zone, not politeness theater that reassures us we are the betters in this society. And that’s all to common thinking nowadays, that we are agreeable and therfore the best thing you can be, like thats what polite type dicks/assholes are honestly. And there’s a reason you turn to online spaces to validate yourselves. Because people dont actually like you enough IRL. And you want to get social stuff done here. Likely to just exchange prefab thinking which is OK. But they want to moderate Piefed to keep it ‘whitewashed’ and that’s insulting to human intelligence and experience IMHO
Its not your dinner party just because its your server. And if that’s why you made it. Then I think that’s self-centered, self-masturbatory and generally uncool shit instead the awesome federated space filled with reasonably unfiltered ideas that it was supposed to have been/could have been.
Semi moderated spaces are wonderful. If its not actually bad don’t worry about it type deal. Learn to ignore, filter and move on. Just like real life. Ive reported like 3 posts total and I’ve had death threats levied and some insane people saying some intentionally horrible shit. OK, oh well, learned some shit about myself or something outside, got stronger, moved on a better more capable person. Part of life. Its not going away because you removed it from the public forum. I feel like unless its really bad. It should be witnessed. Someone got hurt by that? How much? Really? Or is it just playing into some newfound posturing contest type thing? Because that just creates a new power structure, one where to be hurt tactically in order to invalidate or validate the discussion accordingly is used and abused. Overprotection comes with serious downsides, it feels like people here dont understand this concept. You will NEVER be able to handle or win power over yourself or the world it by hiding away from what it is.
So I appreciate the clarity but I still don’t approve of the sentiment and frankly neither should you. It alienates like 50 percent of the world and all the contributions negative and inflammatory people can make (which is plenty, truly.)
Ive needed people to hammer into me, call me on my bullshit, and not elate just cause its perceptually harmful to my wellbeing. That’s the point. It hurt. I have to adjust or accept being a plaything for those that will do that for whatever reasons. And that’s no way to conduct yourself honestly. And many others will need that to grow and overcome things (trauma bullshit, groupthink bs, propaganda bs et al.)
I understand wanting to make safe space for people to be in but GYATT DAMN were past the point of that utility and that being good when you start talking about making some voices (negative ones, less visible by DESIGN)
People need to be able to make social mistakes and/or be assholes and get called on it and to leave it up as an example, not simply delete it and def not hide away from that all the time. Its helpful if people can learn to perceive things like that and toughen up so that the world doesn’t hurt us as much and we can contribute better as a member of civilization. Negative people are part of the world and have plenty to say btw. I LOVE to see those kinds of comments so this is strait bs from that POV. You can jerk off each other as much as you want but thats still gonna be true at the end of the day, and probably forever.
Guess its time to plan out a proper server and compete at that level. Cause this circlejerking shit is just a bit too like Reddit. And I have the technical skill, I just don’t want to have to put in that high a level of effort to wake people up to that I guess.
Sort of sorry for the essay here. Sort of not. Obviously felt it was necessary. Not all positivity is actually good positivity. And I think negative people and down voters should be equal on their own merits (tho with moderating decisions it might be considered it should almost always be by comment as well as context aware. Not just to label them as a “bad person” so your not allowed to be here type groupthinking bullshit) Each comment moderated equally on its own merits. Always and forever. (unless specifically necessary due to some incredibly remarkable circumstance and even then be SUPER careful because otherwise you miss out on the other HALF the world that will still impact your everyday life whether you understand it/that, or witness it/that, or not.
Especially for the younger ones still trying to figure it out, its better to understand wtf is going on out there then to be caught by surprise or be unable to participate in the world because they can’t handle it as a result of this cowardice. Its not doing the world any favors. Keep the actual bots out. Leave the negativity in as long as its not an actual hazard.
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It’s the concept that it is good to moderate these spaces like that that bothers. As a human I need to be challenged and that includes dealing with perceptibly negative commentary from people. Not just some whitewashed version of some propagandized online personas masquerading as the the “best” of human beings.
Like IRL, any truly gratifying social function includes the possibility of heated debate and some real feelings exchanged, real things happening outside your comfort zone, not politeness theater that reassures us we are the betters in this society. And that’s all to common thinking nowadays, that we are agreeable and therfore the best thing you can be, like thats what polite type dicks/assholes are honestly. And there’s a reason you turn to online spaces to validate yourselves. Because people dont actually like you enough IRL. And you want to get social stuff done here. Likely to just exchange prefab thinking which is OK. But they want to moderate Piefed to keep it ‘whitewashed’ and that’s insulting to human intelligence and experience IMHO
Its not your dinner party just because its your server. And if that’s why you made it. Then I think that’s self-centered, self-masturbatory and generally uncool shit instead the awesome federated space filled with reasonably unfiltered ideas that it was supposed to have been/could have been.
Semi moderated spaces are wonderful. If its not actually bad don’t worry about it type deal. Learn to ignore, filter and move on. Just like real life. Ive reported like 3 posts total and I’ve had death threats levied and some insane people saying some intentionally horrible shit. OK, oh well, learned some shit about myself or something outside, got stronger, moved on a better more capable person. Part of life. Its not going away because you removed it from the public forum. I feel like unless its really bad. It should be witnessed. Someone got hurt by that? How much? Really? Or is it just playing into some newfound posturing contest type thing? Because that just creates a new power structure, one where to be hurt tactically in order to invalidate or validate the discussion accordingly is used and abused. Overprotection comes with serious downsides, it feels like people here dont understand this concept. You will NEVER be able to handle or win power over yourself or the world it by hiding away from what it is.
So I appreciate the clarity but I still don’t approve of the sentiment and frankly neither should you. It alienates like 50 percent of the world and all the contributions negative and inflammatory people can make (which is plenty, truly.)
Ive needed people to hammer into me, call me on my bullshit, and not elate just cause its perceptually harmful to my wellbeing. That’s the point. It hurt. I have to adjust or accept being a plaything for those that will do that for whatever reasons. And that’s no way to conduct yourself honestly. And many others will need that to grow and overcome things (trauma bullshit, groupthink bs, propaganda bs et al.)
I understand wanting to make safe space for people to be in but GYATT DAMN were past the point of that utility and that being good when you start talking about making some voices (negative ones, less visible by DESIGN)
People need to be able to make social mistakes and/or be assholes and get called on it and to leave it up as an example, not simply delete it and def not hide away from that all the time. Its helpful if people can learn to perceive things like that and toughen up so that the world doesn’t hurt us as much and we can contribute better as a member of civilization. Negative people are part of the world and have plenty to say btw. I LOVE to see those kinds of comments so this is strait bs from that POV. You can jerk off each other as much as you want but thats still gonna be true at the end of the day, and probably forever.
Guess its time to plan out a proper server and compete at that level. Cause this circlejerking shit is just a bit too like Reddit. And I have the technical skill, I just don’t want to have to put in that high a level of effort to wake people up to that I guess.
Sort of sorry for the essay here. Sort of not. Obviously felt it was necessary. Not all positivity is actually good positivity. And I think negative people and down voters should be equal on their own merits (tho with moderating decisions it might be considered it should almost always be by comment as well as context aware. Not just to label them as a “bad person” so your not allowed to be here type groupthinking bullshit) Each comment moderated equally on its own merits. Always and forever. (unless specifically necessary due to some incredibly remarkable circumstance and even then be SUPER careful because otherwise you miss out on the other HALF the world that will still impact your everyday life whether you understand it/that, or witness it/that, or not.
Especially for the younger ones still trying to figure it out, its better to understand wtf is going on out there then to be caught by surprise or be unable to participate in the world because they can’t handle it as a result of this cowardice. Its not doing the world any favors. Keep the actual bots out. Leave the negativity in as long as its not an actual hazard.
yes but these stats highlight those that are only participating or creating heated debates. users that are consistently downvoted, but also users who are giving lots of downvotes
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Again it’s designed to empower downvoting to silence those against the hivemind
We’re running in circles at this point. I still have to see an example of a false positive for this system, as a nontoxic user being flagged as such.
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When you ignore all the downsides and concerns everything looks amazing.
I wish I had your confidence in it being positive
And when you only focus on the edge cases every tool seems insufficient.
About my confidence: you’re not on Piefed, so you don’t experience the system as a user. If you give it a try, I’m quite sure you’ll see it works as intended 80-90% of the time.
And again, if a legit user gets flagged as toxic, there’s no other consequence besides the warning, that doesn’t prevent anything from being seen.
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We’re running in circles at this point. I still have to see an example of a false positive for this system, as a nontoxic user being flagged as such.
Wouldn’t say running in circles as much as ignoring the issues
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And when you only focus on the edge cases every tool seems insufficient.
About my confidence: you’re not on Piefed, so you don’t experience the system as a user. If you give it a try, I’m quite sure you’ll see it works as intended 80-90% of the time.
And again, if a legit user gets flagged as toxic, there’s no other consequence besides the warning, that doesn’t prevent anything from being seen.
if a legit user gets flagged as toxic, there’s no other consequence besides the warning, that doesn’t prevent anything from being seen.
Yet
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